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rsw@jfet.org
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trent
I went to a Nine Inch Nails concert tonight with Cyrus, Jame, Dylan, and Katy, and dizzam was it badass. We were pretty high up in the nosebleeds, all better tickets having sold out within minutes of the box office opening (I called continuously until I got some and we still ended up on the second level), but it was nevertheless a stupendous concert. Having seen Nine Inch Nails from the moshpit before (on the Fragile tour with Christine, Rodin, Matt, Amrys, Tanis, LeeAnn, and Stephanie), I actually kind of appreciated being able to see throughout the concert and not being bruised and battered by the end of it.
It cannot but be said that Trent is a consummate performer. He had superb control over the mood of the audience throughout the show, bringing them "up" in time to introduce songs from their new album, relaxing the tempo a bit to encompass Hurt, gradually bringing things back up, and ending on the frenzied screams of the audience singing along to Head Like A Hole. Listening to him perform, it's no wonder he's credited with having revolutionized (or is it created?) the genre.
Head (almost) back down: layout calls this weekend, but football, the driving range, and probably some biking lie in wait as well.
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gwax wrote
The industrial genre was created in the mid-seventies by Throbbing Gristle and NON. It was later "revolutionized" into the more mainstream industrial rock genre in the early-eighties by Skinny Puppy, KMFDM and Ministry. Mr. Reznor didn't come along until the late eighties and all he did was make pop music within the industrial rock genre.
Do yourself a favor, go listen to some Skinny Puppy and KMFDM; their music is like NIN's except that it's not crappy pop.
rsw wrote
industrial
is not precisely where Reznor fits in, which is why I claim that he effected widespread change. It is heavily industrial influences on an alt-rock base layer that characterize his music. There is no doubt, for example, that Ministry's album, Psalm 69 (released almost exactly halfway in between Pretty Hate Machine and The Downward Spiral) is made of altogether different *stuff* than Trent's offerings.
In any case, you have to admit that he brought to rock music the layered wall-of-sound texture that had previously been exclusively characteristic of the Puppy et al.
Here is the best evidence that there's a fundamental difference between Trent and the rest: whereas their music has remained fringe, his has been firmly embraced by the mainstream. Yes, you can be all 'cool' with the standard the-mainstream-sucks-ass argument, but you'd be willfully ignoring a much more reasonable argument, to wit, that Trent offers something more aligned with the desires of a larger crowd, i.e., that he fits into an entirely different genre.
-rsw
gwax wrote
A difference in popularity/mass appeal in no way implies/indicates a genre difference; there are plenty of bands/musicians that perform the same genre and meet different levels of popularity. For that matter, there seems to be no quality/popularity correlation either. Actually, I think that it probably all boils down to the fact that Trent signed with a major label, while Ministry, Skinny Puppy and KMFDM all signed with independant labels. So really all that sets Reznor apart is that he's a sell out.
In summation, once more, Trent Reznor didn't revolutionize anything and his music isn't as good as that of Skinny Puppy and KMFDM (I haven't listened to enough Ministry to compare).
Sherv wrote
oh prease
If you say that Nine Inch Nails "revolutionized [or created] the genre," please fucking specify what genre you mean. I practically had a fucking nosebleed reading that, especially since I can't think of any genre for which that might be true.
Also, although I think George made a relatively reasoned defense, except insofar as:
1. Skinny Puppy started out as a gothy synthpop band (listen to Remission or Back and Forth Series 2) with a taste for sampling and only later turned into the harsh collage weirdness that you seem to indicate.
2. I don't like KMFDM (or Ministry, for that matter) very much. :)
3. Nine Inch Nails is pretty good, if brimful with cliché -- admittedly, though, I think Trent Reznor invented the cliché of using "fuck" as an all-purpose intensifier.
4. There's more to industrial than Throbbing Gristle and NON, e.g., Whitehouse, Monte Cazazza, SPK, etc.
Anyway, Wibbles, eat a big "master=dik." Also: YOUR FUCKING KEY ENTRY THINGY STILL WOBBLES AROUND TOO MUCH WHEN I LOOK AT IT.
repak wrote
George: clearly you're right that a mere difference in popularity does not indicate a difference in genre. My claim is that NiN has been embraced by the "average" listener in a way that the rest never could---that is, that NiN listeners can identify with his musical foundations, but cannot relate in that same way to the others you've listed. Like I said before, Ministry is cut from a different cloth than Trent's stuff, and it therefore appeals to a different audience, and in a different way.
With regard to your claim that "he's a sellout because he signed with a major label": part of successfully introducing a new sound to the mainstream is the ability to market it properly. Being a musician means self-promotion, and it's clear that Trent's signing with a major label didn't impact his ability to express himself artistically. That just leaves me wondering why the other guys didn't sign with bigger labels? The answer is probably that no one wanted them, and the reason is because their sound isn't one that many people will like. Still more evidence that NiN is fundamentally different, not just "more of the same, but luckier."
Sherv: alt industrial rock. Marilyn Manson, PM5k, Rob Zombie, etc. all owe their sound to NiN in one way or another.
...and my Wibble's wobblin' keything will remain, your protests to the contrary be damned!
Christine wrote
I'm so jealous. That concert was awesome. Then again, I wasn't all beaten up by the end of it... How did you score those tickets anyway?
--From the library...
rsw wrote
Honestly, I don't remember. Somehow LeeAnn or Tanis came up with them I want to say...
LeeAnn wrote
I think it was me and Tanis spending a fair deal of time trying to bombard Ticketmaster via phone and at least 2 computers in order to get the floor tickets. :)
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